Crawler ToolBar, add-on de SpywareTerminator

[Tokar]

This I realize.

 

However, cyrilcvcf has been active in this thread for a long time now, and we have had back and forth discussions about Crawler software.

 

I am not sure how he is able to say that I have not fully explained Crawler's software and values.

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par Tokar

[cyrilcvcf]

Hello. One real problem is that most people only read first and last posts in longs threads.

 

Falkra, d'abord je lis, ensuite je réponds ! Merci !

Cela dit, si tu trouve mes posts trop long, rien ne t'oblige à les lire !

 

This I realize.

However, cyrilcvcf has been active in this thread for a long time now, and we have had back and forth discussions about Crawler software.

I am not sure how he is able to say that I have not fully explained Crawler's software and values.

Y commence à m'énerver sévère lui !

 

I read all the new posts before replying !

You haven't explain the real goal of the toolbar, just silly things like it's synthétic informations to increase our tools ! Liar !

You haven't explain the real relationships between your society and the other one (sorry I've forgot the name !) that is consider as a "spy society" !

You haven't explain why the toolbar is installing by default instead of leaving the choice to the user to install it or not, by telling him there is a toolbar that can help him. (perhaps ! because it's a spy !)

You haven't really explain why an antispyware software is installing a spy ! (which is such a crazy thing, çinstalling something that the software is about to fight ! )

 

You're kidding about me while I'm not so strong as you wanted to ! I'm not a programmer and not an informatician to ! I can just say things about my experience and knowledge, but I'm not stupid !

In fact this is the last thing you can do , laughing at people that are saying something bad about you're software and your society just to try to say that we're silly and so that other people don't have to listen to us ! Do you really think that everyone is an idiot ?!

I'm polite so I won't tell you my real way of mind ! Small man you are ! Keep in this way if you want, you're shitty software won't be better with that !

 

In fact you don't want us to tell the truth about ST and Crawler ! As we were talking about Crawler, you're talking about ST !

Unfriendly yours !

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par cyrilcvcf

[Falkra]

La longueur de tes posts ne me dérange pas, et je ne suis pas là pour juger de leur contenu. Tu défends mal ta cause.

 

Traiter de menteur quelqu'un et demander des explications sur des relations entre sociétés (probablement confidentielles), ne me parait pas du plus efficace pour mener une discussion constructive.

Les toolbars sont toutes installées sur le principe d'opt-out, et cela ne changera sans doute pas du jour au lendemain, pour le programme dont il est question et pour d'autres. Rien n'oblige qui que ce soit non plus à divulguer des informations sur des liens entre sociétés, tu attends quoi, des aveux, une confession, qu'il te dise "oui, nous aimons les spywares, on va vous infecter" ?

Les insultes et l'énervement ne mènent nulle par.

 

 

Some english elements : Calling someone "liar" and asking for information about companies relations (probably confidential) are not the best ways to discuss things in a constructive manner. Toolbars are all installed by default, using opt-out (you have to uncheck a box to avoid installation), this concerns lots of programs and won't change in a few days. Nothing forces anybody to reveal relations between companies, what were you (you = cyrilcvcf) expecting, some kind of confession, reading Tokar writing "yes we like spywares, we will infect you" ?

Insults and irritation lead nowhere.

 

Edited : english grammar fixes.

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par Falkra

[cyrilcvcf]

La longueur de tes posts ne me dérange pas, et je ne suis pas là pour juger de leur contenu. Tu défends mal ta cause.

 

Traiter de menteur quelqu'un et demander des explications sur des relations entre sociétés (probablement confidentielles), ne me parait pas du plus efficace pour mener une discussion constructive.

Les toolbars sont toutes installées sur le principe d'opt-out, et cela ne changera sans doute pas du jour au lendemain, pour le programme dont il est question et pour d'autres. Rien n'oblige qui que ce soit non plus à divulguer des informations sur des liens entre sociétés, tu attends quoi, des aveux, une confession, qu'il te dise "oui, nous aimons les spywares, on va vous infecter" ?

Les insultes et l'énervement ne mènent nulle par.

Ce coup-ci, il m'a vraiment mis en pétard ! C'est pour cela que j'ai parlé comme ça !

Ce système d'opt-out est lamentable, de n'importe quel logiciel que cela vienne, et ce n'est pas pour rien que beaucoup de personne viennent sur Zeb pour se dépatouiller de choses qu'ils ne pigent pas (à ce propos, chapeau à l'équipe sécu pour le boulot qu'ils font, on ne les remercie jamais à la juste valeur qu'ils mérite ! Voire même certains oublient de remercier ces bénévoles !)

Tu sais comme moi que beaucoup de gens se font avoir par ce système, par ignorance bien évidemment et c'est pour ça que ce système est fait ! Cependant, ce qu'on peux admettre d'un logiciel de nettoyage ou de gravure, que sais-je encore, qui propose une toolbar google ou yahoo (bien que je le répète, aucune toolbar n'est nécessaire et aucune n'est sur mon pc !) est inadmissible d'un logiciel qui se prétend être de sécurité (Nota, j'ai toujours dit que ST était un antispy de plus !) et installe quelque chose qu'il doit combattre !

On se moque qu'aux USA, en Gb ou en Allemagne les toolbars ne gêne pas, on est en France, a Crawler d'éditer un logiciel sans et à eux de trouver un moyen de se faire de la pub !

 

Se moquer des gens n'est pas non plus une façon de se faire de la bonne pub, je pense que tokar compte sur l'effet langue anglaise pour que cela passe inaperçu ! C'est sur, je ne suis pas (ni ne prétends !) être un pro de l'informatique et de la sécurité ; cependant, je ne suis pas non plus le dernier des abrutis ! Ce qui gêne Tokar (et sa compagnie !) c'est la mauvaise pub que assiste.com lui fait et idem pour Zeb, cela se répand sur le net (j'ai vu d'autres discussions sur d'autres forums en faisant des recherches !), qui embête Crawler, il est des choses qu'il ne faut pas divulguer !

 

J'en reste sur ce que j'ai dit, l'utilisation du logiciel est transparente, on ne sait pas trop ce qu'il fait, ni comment (Quand on utilise spybot, par exemple, on voit l'analyse, on a accès au hosts etc...), les options même en mode avancé sont restreintes ! Quand à cette toolbar, on va éviter d'en rajouter !

 

Tokar est venu pur faire de la pub, et tenter de contrôler ce qui peux se dire en essayant d'orienter les choses dans le sens qui arrange Crawler !

On parle de la toolbar, il parle de ST ! Vous avez dit détournement ?! (bien relire les posts !)

Bien sur, on ne lui demande pas de divulguer des infos secrètes sur les sociétés, mais cochon qui s'en dédit, il a noyé le poisson et ne peux démentir les allégations qui ont été faites et par delà même les entérine ! Or, c'est ce qu'il ne veux pas que chacun sache et fait passer !

Que penser d'une sociét dont tout les logiciels sont gratuits ?! Bizarre et étrange, comment font ils de l'argent, business is business, c'est ça qui fait tourner le monde ! Les autres boites ont des logiciels gratuits pour appâter le chaland, ou des versions démos bridées et que l'on doit acheter pour avoir la complète. Où encore un système de donation, mais cela ne fait pas vivre !

 

Chacun fait comme il veux, je n'ai aucune velléité de dicter ma loi, j'ai juste émis un avis, que je ne prétends même pas éclairé ! Juste l'habituel principe de précaution, sur ce type de soft "stratégique" et sensible, la méfiance est la principale qualité dans l'internet !

 

Amicalement.

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par cyrilcvcf

[Falkra]

Je comprends ton énervement. Il y a effectivement les faits que tu énonces, le système d'opt-out est à l'origine de nombreuses infections, je m'en plaignais ailleurs. La séparation de responsabilités entre l'éditeur et les inclusions de logiciels tiers permet ce type de rajouts. Une version sans toolbar existe, (idem pour ccleaner) et n'est pas forcément mise en avant autant qu'elle le pourrait par les diffuseurs, les sites de téléchargement les plus gros (exception faite de MajorGeeks qui je crois ne propose que celle sans toolbar), ne les présentent pas forcément toutes.

[bleuet]

Reeeee..............

 

ouh !

 

Ca recommence à chauffer sur la Crawler ToolBar à Tokar.

 

Le secteur était redevenu super calme. et vlan !!

 

Ah ce Spyware Terminator. C'est bien le roman de l'été.

 

Y faut voir si l'on pourrait pas faire une super production avec la M.G.M. Hollywood, c'est tentant.....

Dallas à côté, mes amis, mais c'est de l'amateurisme.

 

Et puis, Tokar, mais c'est qu'avec tout ça, il est mâlin ! Fûté, je vous le dis !

 

Il voyait bien que son sujet était tombé un peu ou presque dans l'oubli. Il en faisait un gros chagrin.

 

L'oubli, NON ! Le retour, OUI ! Quelle stratégie ! ! !

 

Bonaparte sur le Pont d'Arcole. Du grand art !

 

Et ben quoi ? Faut quand même essayer de détendre l'atmosphère. C'est un peu tendu..

[Falkra]

Ce type de posts, Bleuet, contribue à faire fantastiquement progresser les débats. Sois en remercié.

(@modos : ce post est effaçable)

[cyrilcvcf]

Je comprends ton énervement. Il y a effectivement les faits que tu énonces, le système d'opt-out est à l'origine de nombreuses infections, je m'en plaignais ailleurs. La séparation de responsabilités entre l'éditeur et les inclusions de logiciels tiers permet ce type de rajouts. Une version sans toolbar existe, (idem pour ccleaner) et n'est pas forcément mise en avant autant qu'elle le pourrait par les diffuseurs, les sites de téléchargement les plus gros (exception faite de MajorGeeks qui je crois ne propose que celle sans toolbar), ne les présentent pas forcément toutes.

CQFD, mais ne pas oublier non plus que l'utilisateur Lambda va non seulement déjà se faire avoir par l'opt-out, mais ne se remet pas en cause quand à son utilisation du net, il se repose entièrement sur les logiciels de sécurité !

Pourquoi se méfier d'un téléchargement, d'un ficher ou d'un mail, je suis protégé par mon antivirus, mon firewall et mes antispy , ah en plus, j'ai même un bouclier en temps réel ! Alors, pas de problème ! Et ainsi, ils arrivent presque pleurant et implorant de l'aide sur zeb ou ailleurs ; alors que la simple méfiance et la remise en cause de ses habitudes aurais pu éviter cela !

 

Tokar et ses potes profitent de cela, et un forum renommé comme zeb a créé un"buzz" mauvais pour eux, d'où le retour du tokar ! (si, si, vous pouvez y voir un jeu de mot )

 

Amicalement.

 

Ps : même si ce n'est pas très constructif, il n'a pas complètement tort le Bleuet !

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par cyrilcvcf

[Sacles]

Bonjour,

 

Une version sans toolbar existe, (idem pour ccleaner) et n'est pas forcément mise en avant autant qu'elle le pourrait par les diffuseurs, les sites de téléchargement les plus gros (exception faite de MajorGeeks qui je crois ne propose que celle sans toolbar),[...]

 

Pour les téléchargements sans barre d'outils, j'ai donné des précisions ici:

 

http://forum.zebulon.fr/index.php?s=&s...t&p=1069127

 

Que penser de ce nom "ronflant" Web Security Guard pour une barre d'outils?

 

L'utilisateur lambda va sans doute vouloir une sécurité supplémentaire et donc ce fameux Web Security Guard.

 

Je crois qu'un minimum de transparence est nécessaire pour établir (rétablir?) la confiance.

 

Salut.

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par Sacles

[Tokar]

cyrilcvcf: you keep saying that im hiding the intents of Crawler Toolbar and never explained their intents.

 

I explained everything VERY clearly in posts 62, 65 and 68 after you asked me very clearly what the toolbar is, what its for and whats its most important functions are.

 

I cant help you if you refuse to read, so please read below (which also appears in posts 62, 65, and 68 if you dont believe me) and then get back to me with your claims.

 

In summary:

Crawler Toolbar is a toolbar similar to Google, Yahoo, etc.

Its intents are to facilitate searches on our search engine, Crawler.com, because research would definitely show people are more inclined to search via a toolbar than by the webpage.

Users installing the toolbar generates revenue.

Users using the toolbar generates revenue.

The money comes from advertising deals, business deals, affiliate deals, etc. There are no dark, malicious spyware deals anywhere.

 

 

When I have I laughed at anyone? This discussion has been pretty serious in nature.

 

You make me out to be some kind of rogue spy or something, hiding some big secret about Crawler and Spyware Terminator. What have I not revealed?

I've told you how we make money - advertising, affiliate deals, business deals, toolbar installs, toolbar use, search engine use, etc.

I've told you how Crawler operates - we are a search engine business model.

I've told you how we handle information - our privacy policy states that we do not collect personal information UNLESS contacted by the user in the form of e-mails. And even then, that information is only used for future contact with the user if we need to contact the user. All other information is anonymous in nature and does not uniquely identify you. I suggest you read our privacy policy again.

I've told you how Spyware Terminator is free - it is supported by our search engine revenue model.

I've told you how Spyware Terminator operates.

I've explained to you our stance on toolbars, something you dont agree with because you think we are providing something that should be removed by Spyware Terminator. Here I told you that Spyware Terminator removes only MALICIOUS toolbars or spyware toolbars, which means toolbars which have malicious intents or SELL the information it gathers to 3rd parties. Safe toolbars from Google and Yahoo and the sort are not SPYWARE and there is no reason whatsoever to remove them.

Horus and I had our discussion on opt-in / opt-out. Opt-out certainly generates more installs of our toolbar, and in a world of dollars and cents it would be stupid to make it opt-in. Horus doesn't agree and you probably do not either, but that is too bad. We are doing nothing wrong in making it opt-out, Google uses opt-out, Yahoo uses opt-out. Go complain to them as well, and see what they say. I guarantee that you will receive the same response from them.

 

This was all explained in my multitude of posts in this thread.

 

 

When I have I made fun of anyone? I am the one receiving the personal attacks here, and I have not once complained about it. I do not like it, but I am not going to drop to your level or Horus' level and start personal attacks on either of you. I've seen the word "Tocard" used with reference to me, several times.

 

I didn't come here to advertise. I came here to discuss, find out the root of the problem with the Assiste.com craptheque page, and no one is providing me hard evidence, not even Horus when I have asked him repeatedly.

 

Sacles: The name Web Security Guard is used because you get that tool with Spyware Terminator. If you goto www.crawler.com and install the toolbar from crawler.com, you will NOT get the Web Security Guard software by default with the toolbar. Users can clearly see in the Spyware Terminator installer that Web Security Guard uses Crawler Toolbar from the image, so if the user does not want this feature they simply opt-out. There is no transparency here.

 

bleuet: I reply here when I see replies from users of the forum. I saw replies so I replied.

 

 

 

 

The "commercial goals" of Crawler is of course to make money and be a profitable company. There are many expenses which Crawler pays (which I am aware of):

-Employee salaries

-Employee expenses (travel, etc.)

-Subscription to malware-providing services (to receive malware samples to add to our database. e.g. www.spywaresignatures.com)

-Subscription to download sites for listing our software or to expidite update process (download.com, tucows.com, etc.)

 

Those are the things I am aware of. Crawler does what it feels is necessary to improve the quality of our software and our company name.

I know for a fact that our expenses do not go into "dark", "malicious" deals which Assiste.com.free.fr presumes. All of our business deals comply with certain standards, and are 100% legal and legitimate.

 

 

All of our money comes from business deals with legitimate companies (Google, Yahoo, AOL, etc.), sponsored results when you search on Crawler.com (similar to Google sponsored results), and general searching with Crawler.com or installation of our toolbar.

I'm sure there is more complexity to how the money is made, but there are no "bad" deals here. No "malicious software", no trojans, no deals with "dark companies"...nothing of that nature.

 

There is no need to change our business practices because our practices are legitimate and standard for companies with search engine based revenue models, like Google, Yahoo!, MSN, AOL, Ask.com, etc.

 

 

1) A quoi sert la crawler toolbar exactement ? (What is the Crawler toolbar exactly used for?)

 

It is used as a means for us to make money easier. Sure, we could attempt to operate without a toolbar and hope word of mouth helps spread use of Crawler.com search portal, but word and popularity spreads faster with toolbars.

 

We operate similar to Google, Yahoo!, MSN, AOL, Ask.com, Lycos, Excite.com, etc. Our money comes from using our search engine, just like Google's main source of revenue is use of their search engine. The Crawler toolbar has the same intents as Google Toolbar, Yahoo! Toolbar, etc. Research would probably show that people prefer to use a toolbar instead of using the search engine webpage (in other words, Google Toolbar instead of Google.com, Yahoo! Toolbar instead of Yahoo.com, etc.). Being in a market with several other search engines who have their own toolbars, it is only smart to have our own toolbar which searches our search engine so that our search engine is on a level playing field with all the others. However it should be noted that our toolbar searches Crawler AND Google, Yahoo!, MSN and Ask.com.

 

 

 

2) Quelles sont ses fonctions utiles pour l'utilisateur lambda? (What are its helpful functions for a beginner?)

 

The majority of what Crawler Toolbar 4.5 offers is available in Crawler Toolbar 5.0, and has been upgraded. I will point out which items are specifically part of the new Crawler Toolbar 5.0.

 

---(Crawler Toolbar 5.0 only) The "Quick Search" feature offers a useful, bigger and clearer "find text" tool for finding text on a webpage. It is meant to be a replacement of the Internet Explorer CTRL-F/F3 window.

 

---(Crawler Toolbar 5.0 only) Our search box changes its size to accomodate longer search strings - users will be able to see more of their search strings without scrolling the text.

 

---(Crawler Toolbar 5.0 only) Beginners should enjoy our redesigned settings window. Our setting have been made easier to navigate, and are made more clear. We have also made it harder for beginners to mess up Crawler settings by strategically placing settings in different areas of the settings. We knew our settings window from Crawler Toolbar 4.5 was a liability because it was hard to navigate and could sometimes be an annoyance.

 

When comparing our settings window to other toolbars, we find our settings window to be much clearer and easier to navigate.

 

---Beginners will benefit from our plugin system which allows control of all of our software by Crawler Toolbar. Some beginners do not know how to operate or know the "System Tray". Our plugin system will make sure users never have to deal with the "System Tray".

 

---The majority of internet users have a clear idea where they want to go for services such as a Dictionary, Thesaurus, Maps, etc. We have provided links to major services of these types to cater to beginner users who would otherwise not know where to go. Yes, advanced users might find use out of these links, but I believe these were designed with the beginner in mind.

 

Also be aware that these links are not for services we develop in-house, like some "bad" toolbars would use. The links are to well known, trusted services in each category (see below):

 

"People search" leads to http://www.whitepages.com

"Travel info" leads to http://www.expedia.com

"Shopping" leads to http://www.half.com

"Dictionary" leads to http://dictionary.reference.com

"Groups" leads to http://groups.google.com

etc.

 

---We provide users the choice of search engine. Some users come onto the internet after watching their favorite television channel and maybe hear the term "Google" or "Yahoo!". Instead of forcing users to use Crawler.com search engine, we allow users to search Google, Yahoo!, MSN or Ask.com. I will ask the developers to maybe add a few more search engines (AOL, Lycos, Excite, Altavista, etc.). Changing search engines in Crawler Toolbar is very easy, and even beginners should have no issue finding it. If I was giving Crawler Toolbar to my mom, she probably would not be able to find it, but she would not know the difference between search engines, anyway. This is a feature for all users who know the difference and was developed with the beginner in mind. (Compare this to the Internet Explorer 7 search bar, which requires you have a bit of knowledge to add more search engines).

 

 

....Crawler Toolbar obviously has a lot more features, but I would not recommend them to a beginner just starting with toolbars as they require some technical knowledge.

 

 

 

3) Quelles sont ses actions exactes pour la société éditrice? (What are its exact actions for the editor?)

 

I am sorry, but I do not understand the question.

 

Could you please rephrase? You may write your question in French. MacPeter and ipl_001 can help with the translation.

 

 

salut a tous , le sujet est réservé à ceux qui connaissent l'anglais par coeur , ce qui n'est pas mon cas!!!!!!!!!!! çà a portant l'air interessant , a ++++

 

My apologies. I can have MacPeter translate my responses if you want.

 

 

 

thanks,

witch personnals informations are given to your sponsors ?

 

....and is it possible to show the sources of the crawler toolbar to Pierre, the administrator of ASSISTE.COM. Perhaps, it will be a solution to reexamine the presence of Spyware terminator in the crapware section....

 

regards

 

 

 

 

I do not think the development team would be willing to do that for a two reasons:

1) the program is closed source, it is not open source. So it would go against our license.

2) frankly, we would not trust our sources in the hands of Pierre. This is not meant to single him out...we would not trust our sources in the hands of any independently run website.

 

There should be enough tools available on the web (for free) which can accurately analyze the full range of abilities of Crawler Toolbar (packet analyzers, resource hackers, bandwidth meters, CPU meters, etc.).

 

 

 

There is no personal information given to our sponsors. No names, no addresses, no age, etc. Everything that we collect is accurately defined in Crawler's Privacy Policy as in line with other major search engines. In short: we don't sell, share or distribute any personal information from our users:

 

From Crawler Privacy Policy:

http://www.spywareterminator.com/legal/privacy.aspx

Information Collection

Visiting and using Crawler Services may result in Crawler receiving performance and usage information (such as search term, time of day, browser type, default language setting, IP address, an anonymous identifier). This information will not be used to personally identify you.

 

Sharing of Information

Crawler does not collect any personally identifiable information unless provided by you, and we will not share, rent or sell any of your personally identifiable information provided by you. We may share aggregated non-personally identifiable information with third parties outside of Crawler. Aggregate non-personally identifiable information is recorded about users and collected into groups so that it no longer reflects or references an individually identifiable user. We may disclose some information in response to subpoenas, court orders, or other legal requirements.

 

From Google Privacy Policy:

http://www.google.com/privacy.html

Google’s servers automatically record information when you visit our website or use some of our products, including the URL, IP address, browser type and language, and the date and time of your request.

 

From Yahoo! Privacy Policy:

http://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/details.html

Yahoo! automatically receives and records information on our server logs from your browser, including your IP address, Yahoo! cookie information, and the page you request.

 

From MSN Privacy Policy:

http://mobile.msn.com/device/en-us/privacy.aspx

We may collect information about your visit, including the pages you view, the links you click and other actions taken in connection with Microsoft sites and services. We also collect certain standard information that your browser sends to every website you visit, such as your IP address, browser type and language, access times and referring Web site addresses.

 

Modifié le 21 août 2007 par Tokar