Crawler ToolBar, add-on de SpywareTerminator

[ipl_001]

Hi Tokar, horus agressor, hi everyone,

 

Before I forget:

Spyware Terminator 2.0 beta has been officially released: http://forum.spywareterminator.com/Default...osts&t=2126

 

Please take into consideration this new version when performing your review.

I would like to tell you that, in the antimalware community, we never ever advise a program in a beta version...

As I told you, we work together with editors and a beta version is tested till it is released in the wild!

 

For example -as I wrote it above- we worked with Trend Micro for several months before accepting their new issue of HijackThis, which was released some days ago (after lots of requests)!

Trend didn't released it before we accepted it (2 developers were discussing closely with us on private boards)!

[bleuet]

Good evening,

 

This link, on this site, speaks about what? Exact? False? Information? Defamation?

Please, the light.

Thank you.

 

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/craptheque/sp..._termintor.html

[ipl_001]

Bonsoir gixona,

 

Merci pour les explications très claires sur ta mésaventure à l'origine de cette longue et très intéressante discussion !

 

Oui, l'éditeur reconnait qu'il y a un bug dans le programme de désinstallation de la toolbar avec FireFox (pas de bug avec la toolbar installée avec IE).

 

La toolbar est installée (si la case est cochée) avec SpywareTerminator mais ensuite, la Toolbar est indépendante de ST si bien que la désinstallation de ST ne suffit pas à éliminer la TB.

... en plus, il y a ce bug et je comprends qu'avec les malwares qui traînent et pourrissent le système, que tu te sois un peu affolé !

L'installation de la toolbar a pour effet, entre autres, de modifier les paramètres de moteur de recherche associé au navigateur !

C'est sûr que recréer le profil pour se débarrasser de cette barre d'outils n'est pas une solution très commode et je te félicite d'y être arrivé sans problème !

[Tokar]

Bonjour horus agressor, cyrilcvcf, fifi29, bonjour à tous,

 

Pour essayer de récapituler un peu, en Français, pour permettre à tous de suivre, je crois qu'on peut dire :

 

- Eric L. Howes accepte SpywareTerminator comme un bon programme

Eric a "délisté" SpywareTerminator en 2006 de sa page Rogue/Suspect Anti-Spyware Products & Web Sites (la référence mondiale en matière de faux utilitaires de sécurité).

Il avait analysé le programme (attention, je parle de ST) mais avait mis le programme à l'index suite aux relations douteuses passées de la société ; il a donné une sorte de pénalité : mise à l'épreuve de 3 mois.

A l'issue des 3 mois de "quarantaine" Eric a réanalysé et conclu à l'acceptabilité de SpywareTerminator, en 2006

 

- les Européens/les Français sont plus pointilleux sur certains points comme les données personnelles et le principe de précaution.

Pierre reconnaît que SpywareTerminator est un bon programme mais il tique (et s'"énerve" de plus en plus) sur la Crawler Toolbar qui s'invite trop facilement sur le système et place le tout (ST et la toolbar) dans sa Crapthèque (la référence française en matière de faux utilitaires de sécurité) !

Pierre accepte le programme ST mais n'aime pas la Toolbar !

 

- beaucoup de sociétés commerciales installent des Toolbars qui leur permettent de "se refaire" en proposant leurs outils gratuits (Google Earth, CCleaner, SpywareTerminator et autres).

Les outils gratuits permettent de mettre un pied sur le marché et constituent une sorte d'investisement.

Les toolbars permettent de rentabiliser leurs investissements en constituant une base de prospects et en orientant la navigation de l'internaute... il ne s'agit pas de ne donner que des réponses de leurs clients mais en mettant leur moteur (respectivement Google, Yahoo!, Crawler), il peuvent négocier de meilleurs contrats (avec le nombre de recherches effectuées par leur moteur).

Je ne crois pas qu'il y ait spyware (la définition est floue et dépend de la sensibilité de chacun) mais il y a des choses faites à l'insu du plein gré de l'utilisateur

 

- encore une fois, ST est un bon outil (qui peut encore être amélioré) mais ce que nous reprochons est :

--- le fait que la Crawler Toolbar s'installe en même temps que ST grâce à une case précochée ; il est toujours possible de ne pas installer mais un de nombreux internautes passent trop rapidement sur cet écran et la Opt-Out

--- à cette installation s'est greffée, sur Zeb', un bug avec FireFox qui a fait que la toolbar était quasiment impossible à désinstaller (système de gixona - cf message initial de la discussion "spyware terminator logo crawler) - et affole l'utilisateur

 

- on ne s'émeut pas de la Toolbar de Yahoo! proposée de la même manière (Opt-Out) lors de l'installation de CCleaner : on fait attention lors de l'installation et on décoche la case en question

 

- il est possible, de la même manière, de décocher la case lors de l'installation de ST pour ne pas installer la Crawler Toolbar

 

- il y a sur le site Web de SpywareTerminator, la possibilité d'un produit ST sans cette toolbar mais il faut encore le savoir !

 

~~~~

 

Comme souvent, il y a des sensibilités différentes à l'origine des conclusions apparemment différentes entre Eric L. Howes (Spyware Warrior) et Pierre Pinard (Assiste.com) :

- aux USA, les américains jugent normal de rémunérer un service qui leur donne satisfaction y compris après coup, lorqu'ils l'ont déjà sur leur disque dur et gratuitement.

Devant un programme "gratuit", leur réflexe est "Comment est-ce que je le paie ?" car ils savent que rien ne peut être gratuit et qu'il y a une manière autre de payer et ils vont jusqu'à faire des donations volontaires pour remercier l'auteur d'un programme "gratuit"

- en France, les habitudes sont un peu différentes et nous sommes plus idéalistes... je vous laisse compléter

 

 

I was actually going to write a very long response to every reply since my last, but this has everything I want to say.

 

I am definitely guilty of not knowing the difference between the opinions of Search Engines/Toolbars/Spyware/Security of the US and Europe. So my apologies.

 

 

The only things I want to add to this are:

-The Firefox problem originally brought up by Gixona was not a malicious action from Crawler Toolbar. It was a bug that we will attempt to reproduce to fix.

 

-Spyware Terminator makes it more clear than CCleaner that there is bundled software. How?

---When you click Download on the CCleaner homepage you arrive at this page: http://www.ccleaner.com/download/. You then need to click "Other builds" to get to the page Horus linked. It took me a little while to determine this, myself.

---When you click Download on the Spyware Terminator homepage you arrive at this page: http://www.spywareterminator.com/dnl/landing.aspx. The downloads are clearly stated: "Download FREE Spyware Terminator & Web Security Guard" and "...download free Spyware Terminator without its enhancement, Web Security Guard...". No separate pages, just direct links to both versions.

---FlashGet, another software which includes bundled Google Toolbar, does not state anywhere on their download page of the included toolbar: http://www.flashget.com/en/download.htm.

 

-Spyware Terminator is not the only security program which has included toolbar, opt-out.

---McAfee includes their program SiteAdvisor, which is similar to our Web Security Guard (which we bundle). McAfee software is not identified on the Assiste.com.free.fr Craptheque page.

---CyberDefender includes their program searchSAFE toolbar. CyberDefender was listed at Assiste.com.free.fr Craptheque, but has been removed and no information is present. Only the remark: "Relevé par Eric L. Howes. Voir données complètes et origine de cette information dans "The Spyware Warrior List of Rogue/Suspect Anti-Spyware Products & Web Sites - Eric L. Howes" --- which shows that the Craptheque page was influenced by the actions of Eric Howes.

[Tokar]

Merci de te réponse ipl_001 !

 

Peut-on laisser le moindre doute quant à la "propreté" et à l'"honnêteté"d'un log qui est est sensé assuré la défense en première ligne d'une passoire comme Windows XP (configuré par défaut, ce qui doit être le cas pour 90% des utilisateurs) ?

 

Il y a mieux, plus transparent et plus propre que ST à l'installation ! Rien n'indique, à l'installation de ST, des dangers de la CrawlerBar ! Et qui se donnent la peine de lire les Conditions Générales ? Soyons honnêtes ! Qui parmi les internautes de base, dont je fais partie, se donnent la peine de lire entièremennet les Conditions d'utilisation d'un log ?

 

Amicalement.

 

But there reasons are not reasons to identify Spyware Terminator as "crap" or reasons to list it on the Craptheque page.

 

Spyware Terminator is not as good as other programs - this is your opinion, which may or may not agree with the opinions of other people. This is not a reason to list it at the Craptheque page.

Crawler Toolbar is crap - again this is your opinion. We have several hundred thousand users of Crawler Toolbar who will say it is useful. This is not a reason to list it at the Craptheque page.

 

If the doubt is reasonble and can be backed up without false claims, then it is a reason to list it on the Craptheque page. Instead the doubt is raised by claiming Spyware Terminator has a trojan, Crawler Toolbar has a trojan, Crawler Toolbar is installed by drive-by activex, etc.. There is no proof of the claims on the Craptheque page. No screenshots, no video, no text from our policies, no comparisons, no published documents, etc.

 

 

 

We are not saying there are or are not better cleaners than Spyware Terminator. We let the user decide. We are simply saying that Spyware Terminator is not bad, Crawler is not bad, and Crawler Toolbar is not bad - because suggesting this will immediately deter users from even trying our software.

Modifié le 12 juillet 2007 par Tokar

[horus agressor]

Dear Tocard !

 

Read again Qui développe Spyware Terminator ? http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/craptheque/sp..._termintor.html !

..The company's new Spyware Terminator™ eradicates spyware and adware from users' computers. IBIS has substantially invested into the development of a high-end product that is offered at no cost to consumers and even includes free real-time protection.

 

New Business Model:

IBIS has traditionally developed new revenue channels for online advertisers, allowing them to market their wares directly to consumers' desktops. While IBIS once used brilliant technology to thrive in this arena, the company has since revised its business model and reversed its focus.

 

Using the wealth of knowledge attained in creating its former products, IBIS now offers consumers the benefits gained over years of research and implementation. The premier Crawler products (www.crawler.com) including Spyware Terminator (www.spywareterminator.com) are exemplars of this new business model.

 

About IBIS, LLC:

As a pioneering innovator in the rapidly evolving Web Search and Online Directory services market, IBIS products are highly ranked by the industry and users alike. IBIS develops free applications that are offered to consumers, enabling them to maximize their Web surfing experience quickly, easily and safely. IBIS also forms strategic distribution partnerships with its co-branded and private-label solutions

...

# La société Crawler :

Crawler, llc

999 Yamato RD Ste 100

Boca Raton,

Floride 33431-4478

Etats Unis

Tel: 1-561-989-7400

Fax: 1-561-989-7401

[email protected]

 

# La société IBIS llc

Siège - Ibis llc

999 Yamato RD Ste 100

Boca Raton,

Floride 33431-4478

Etats Unis

Tel: 1-561-989-7400

1 561 237 2850

Fax: 1-561-989-7401

[email protected]

...

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/craptheque/sp..._termintor.html

Stange ? Speak about "transparency" please !

...We have several hundred thousand users of Crawler Toolbar who will say it is useful...

Oh yes ! The people of America who are used to Big Brother way of life I've tested ST about 2 weeks, bullshit ! No transparency !

 

Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster associeted with SSM free or PG full, are really effective ! ST is just a useless and dangerous pseudo-"magik program" ! Do you try yourself the ridiculous ST'IDS ? Where are the information to configure correctly the processus ? ST is a big peace of shit !

[Tokar]

Why such the rude remarks? Completely uncalled for.

 

 

 

What makes you believe that Spyware Terminator is "bullshit"?

 

Using it on a machine that is using other security software obviously will not prove anything. "Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster associeted with SSM free or PG full, are really effective" - this seems to be proof that you are using this software in conjunction with Spyware Terminator. You are not providing a proper TEST ENVIRONMENT to prove your claims that ST is "bullshit". Independent outposts which perform real and trustworthy tests of security software and prevention systems (IDS/HIPS) test each security software independently.

 

I use the ST IDS (HIPS) 100% of the day. ST is the only security software that I am using - with ClamAV enabled of course. I have not been infected once, and I visit a lot of bad sites.

 

 

 

What is "transparency" supposed to mean? Could you please use a different term?

 

 

 

What do you mean by "magic program"? What is that supposed to mean?

 

 

There are four processes and one driver of Spyware Terminator:

SpywareTerminator.exe - this is the main program exe. It will show up when you open ST main window.

SpywareTerminatorShield.exe - this is the ring3 realtime shield protection. This will show up only if you have RTS enabled.

STServer.exe - this is the plugin for Crawler Toolbar. This will only show up if you have Crawler Toolbar installed with Spyware Terminator added as a plugin.

sp_rsser.exe - this is the ring2? ring1? (i have to check which) HIPS protection. This will only show up if you have HIPS enabled.

 

sp_rsdrv2.sys (driver) - this is spyware terminator's ring0 protection. This loads with the kernel.

 

 

What kind of process configuration do you WANT? It would be helpful if you ELABORATED ON IT and SUGGESTED something instead of COMPLAINING about it.

 

 

-----------------------------------------------

 

 

I am here, I am not going anywhere. I am being completely open about this and all you are trying to do is just push me away and I am not pleased about it.

 

Am I dodging the questions about our company? No, I know they are there, and I will answer them.

 

Because of the difficultly of this situation with the Craptheque page, I am taking this one part at a time. And what I am doing first is trying to find the stem of the problem of the false identifcation of our software as "bad". This is the simplest problem to fix because 1) the claims are completely false, and 2) if people actually installed our software these claims could be debunked in under 10 minutes. You keep dodging these claims and I keep asking you to address them. Your opinion is heavily weighted at Assiste.com.free.fr so it is important that Pierre see them. And since you have now OPENLY ADMITTED to testing our software, I insist you address the following claims in the Craptheque article. My answer is provided in blue, and they are honest responses directly from the company as you know I work for the company. If you disagree please provide proof of why you disagree in the form of screenshots, videos, logs, articles, etc.:

 

(I will take them in the order that I see them)

 

Again I want to point out these are claims taken straight from the Assiste.com.free.fr Craptheque webpage here: http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/craptheque/sp..._termintor.html.

 

Claim #1) Crawler offers a lot of free software of the trojan kind. In your testing did you find any trojan? No

Claim #2) No software is free, there must be revenue somwhere - stealing private info, spyware, adware. In your testing did you find any of these practices? No

Claim #3) The toolbar BHO is given a negative connotation. Did you find Crawler Toolbar BHO to be as safe as other popular toolbars (Google, Yahoo!, etc.)? Yes

Claim #4) The toolbar installs by means of drive-by ActiveX download. Did you find this to be true? No

Claim #5) Crawler and ST are on the dark side of the net and always have been. Did you find any information pointing you to a "dark" side of the net (which I take to mean Adware, Spyware, Malware, privacy theft, information sale, etc.)? No

Claim #6) Spyware Terminator is sending information. Did you find Spyware Terminator to be sending any information outside of what is standard for security programs (update information, and community settings similar to Windows Defender, Ad-aware, spysweeper, counterspy,e tc.)? No

Claim #7) Spyware Terminator removes competitor products. You alluded to the fact that you tested Spyware Terminator on a machine with SSM, SpyBot, and Spyware Blaster. Did Spyware Terminator attempt to remove any of these competing products? No

Claim #8) Spyware Terminator removes spyware and adware competitors, thus alluding to a claim that Spyware Terminator itself is spyware/adware. Did you determine Spyware Terminator to be spyware/adware/etc.? No

Claim #9) All of our software is using Trojans. Did you find any trojans in our software? No

 

 

I wish to first solve these claims about our software, and we will go from there.

 

 

Again, if you do not agree with the answer directly from the company then I insist that you provide proof of why you disagree in the form of screenshots, videos, logs, press releases, documented articles, etc.

 

This is very simple, everything is laid out nice and clear and should make it easy for you to respond.

Modifié le 13 juillet 2007 par Tokar

[bibi26]

Hi all,

 

Tokar, I saw you posted a few interesting questions to horus agressor (is Crawler toolbar a trojan?, is Spyware Terminator installed by an ActiveX?, etc.) Why did you remove them?

 

What do you mean by "magic program"? What is that supposed to mean?

I think he means a powerful-all-in-one program that eliminates all.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bonjour à tous,

 

Tokar, j'ai vu que tu as posté quelques questions intéressantes à horus agressor (est-ce que Crawler toolbar est un trojan ?, est-ce que Spyware Terminator est installé par un ActiveX ?, etc.) Pourquoi les avoir enlevées ?

 

What do you mean by "magic program"? What is that supposed to mean?

Je pense qu'il veut dire un programme tout-en-un-super-puissant.

Modifié le 13 juillet 2007 par bibi26

[Tokar]

Hi all,

 

Tokar, I saw you posted a few interesting questions to horus agressor (is Crawler toolbar a trojan?, is Spyware Terminator installed by an ActiveX?, etc.) Why did you remove them?

I think he means a powerful-all-in-one program that eliminates all.

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Bonjour à tous,

 

Tokar, j'ai vu que tu as posté quelques questions intéressantes à horus agressor (est-ce que Crawler toolbar est un trojan ?, est-ce que Spyware Terminator est installé par un ActiveX ?, etc.) Pourquoi les avoir enlevées ?

Je pense qu'il veut dire un programme tout-en-un-super-puissant.

 

 

I wanted to post everything in an easy to read layout, in a way which I hope will coax horus to answer. You will see everything is back. I was in the process of editing my post while you were posting .

 

 

If "magic program" is meant to be the "ultimate program which is our way of saying people should remove everything but Spyware Terminator"...

When did I ever suggest this? I am not one of the people going around suggesting people "uninstall" certain safe programs because they are "not good".

When did Crawler ever suggest this? No where does Crawler say "avoid software that is not Spyware Terminator". If we find that there is a compatability issue, as we found with Zone Alarm, we will alert the user of a possible incompatability in the install notes, but we won't say REMOVE XXXX IMMEDIATELY like some users here on this forum choose to do.

 

Are you seriously blaming our software for deciding to integrate antivirus, HIPS protection, and domain protection (in the form of Web Security Guard)? This is not a meant to force removal of other software. We are merely improving our software.

Modifié le 13 juillet 2007 par Tokar

[cyrilcvcf]

Bonjour Tokar, bonjour à tous,

 

Outre le fait de tourner en rond, voilà maintenant que Tokar compare ST et Crawler à d'autres logiciels et société qui n'ont rien à voir avec les antispywares !

 

As the discussion is going round, you Tokar compare ST and crawler to others software and societies that are not concerned with antispywares !

On se moque de Ccleaner dans ce topic, ce n'est pas un logiciel de sécurité, juste un nettoyeur ! Et que viens faire Zone Alarm ici ? sinon comparer les bugs d'installation ?!

 

We don't mind about Ccleaner in this topic, it's not a security software, just a cleaner ! What does Zone Aalrm come here ? If it's just to compare installation Bugs.

 

S'il te plait Tokar, parle nous seulement de ST et Crawler, réponds clairement à nos question, sans nous noyer de termes trop techniques ou de choses anodines !

 

Please Tokar, speak only about ST and Crawler, answer clearly to our requests, without annoying us with some technics terms or trivials things !

Friendly.

Modifié le 13 juillet 2007 par cyrilcvcf