Crawler ToolBar, add-on de SpywareTerminator

[Tokar]

I am kind of handicapped here since I dont speak French, but this thread was brought to my attention from this thread: http://assiste.forum.free.fr/viewtopic.php?p=107806. I am trying to resolve the Craptheque listing of Spyware Terminator.

 

Let me start by saying I work for Spyware Terminator.

 

 

Anyway, everything you guys are pointing out is related to Crawler Toolbar, not Spyware Terminator.

 

We offer two versions of Spyware Terminator, one which bundles an OPTIONAL install of Web Security Guard + Crawler Toolbar, and one which doesn't. I think you installed the bundled version and failed to uncheck the Web Security Guard installation.

 

The installation of Web Security Guard + Crawler Toolbar is optional. If you dont want it, just uncheck it.

 

We will soon have a French translated installer. It should make things more clear for our French users in the future. We apologize for any confusion caused by the lack of a French translation.

 

 

 

 

Crawler operates similar to Google - search engine based revenue model. Crawler toolbar is very similar to Google toolbar. Installation and use is how we generate revenue. It is clean, and has generated TRUSTe certification: http://www.truste.org/pvr.php?page=td_licensees

 

 

If there are any problems with the Firefox version, please bring them up at our official forum: http://forum.spywareterminator.com. I will bring them up internally, and they will be fixed. Our Firefox version is rather new and could use some help in finding bugs like this one.

 

 

 

 

If you need this message to be translated into French, I can have that done by a member of our official forum (User: MacPeter).

Modifié le 12 juillet 2007 par KewlCat
Split d'une discussion marquée [résolu]

[cyrilcvcf]

(ipl_001) Cette discussion est issue du split de [RESOLU]spyware terminator logo crawler

~~

 

Hello Tokar,

 

Please excuse my english that is not so good as I wanted to ! (Where is my old teacher when I was a young student !)

 

Is it normal that an antispyware tool offers a "bad thing" in the installation of the software, because the soft ST is working to get rid off those kind of things ?!

 

Anyway ST is free but offering a toolbar with the soft is not a good idea, and the explanation not to install it to short !

 

However, ST isn't a good antyspy tool, some test show that others free antispy tool are better ! So tell us why we do have to install it instead of a better program even if there is no real time protection for network!

 

I used to try ST and if it find some "things" it were "false positive" spy ! And the real time protection is really working ? I don't know because there were no alerts, no nothing !

 

For me (and only for me !) this software is not necessary and seems to be a "bad thing" because of "nebulous" birth in a known society working for spying ! My idea about this soft is done and would change only if ST becomes a better antispy tool and if the society changes is politics !

 

In this forum on other topics, Mac Peter can't really defend this software against things report by another good and well known member that is a fan of security !

 

Thanks for your answer in this topic, it's fine to see that our discussion is follow by a software editor !

 

Have a nice week-end.

 

In a friendly way.

[ipl_001]

Hi Tokar, cyrilcvcf, hi everyone,

 

Tokar, you're welcome at Zebulon! Thanks for posting these clear explanations: I know MacPeter and I'm going to tell him about your post here!

 

As for now, I'm going to post into the thread you started at Assiste.com!

 

~~ edit:

I just discovered the closed topic http://forum.zebulon.fr/index.php?showtopic=122636 that led to a complaint on your US forum!

As a Security Admin at Zebulon, I will investigate and tell you more!

[Tokar]

MacPeter will just be my translator if needed .

 

I will try to use very simple English to make this discussion easy because I do not know French. I know this is a French forum, so I apologize for using English but I feel I need to defend Spyware Terminator here.

 

Because I am lazy:

ST = Spyware Terminator

CT = Crawler Toolbar

WSG = Web Security Guard

 

 

About bundling Crawler Toolbar + Web Security Guard

 

First: there are two downloadable versions of ST:

ST with WSG+CT

ST without WSG+CT

 

They both have the same ST version. WSG is our other security product which is like McAfee SiteAdvisor (http://www.siteadvisor.com/ ).

WSG is 100% clean and safe. WSG, though, requires CT to operate.

 

CT is also clean and safe. It has TRUSTe certification (which only clean toolbars have). It does not steal information or install by trojan or drive-by ActiveX, as stated on the "Craptheque" webpage. Everything it does is similar to popular toolbars like Google Toolbar, Yahoo! Toolbar, Windows Live Toolbar, etc.

 

CT is our way of making money. We operate similar to Google - a search engine revenue generating model. We do not make money from Spyware Terminator or Clam AntiVirus. Yes, we do make money from our Corporate Licensing, but it is not significant enough to operate our Company. The major source of revenue is Crawler Toolbar and Crawler Search.

 

We do not brand ST as including an optional toolbar. We brand it as ST including another one of our security products, WSG. This practice is normal and widely accepted:

FlashGet bundles Google Toolbar

Spyware Doctor bundles Google Toolbar

Adobe Flash bundles Google Toolbar

DivX 6 bundles Google Toolbar

 

Also, we provide a downloadable version without WSG, unlike the software listed above.

 

We do not look at this practice as bad. Crawler is about making free and helpful software which will imrove your security and your efficiency on the computer, and we would like to get people to use our other software, like Web Security Guard. We also need to make money to operate and so does every other company using toolbars to make money.

 

Again, the install is 100% optional. If you do not want it, you just choost not to install it . Or you can download the installer without WSG+CT. The versions are clearly marked on our homepage.

 

 

We are also looking to translate both our homepage and installers to make things more clear for our international users.

 

 

 

 

 

About false positives

 

We take False Positives very seriously. Whenever a user reports a false positive on our forums, we address it very quickly.

 

If you find a false positive, we urge you to report it either in the software using the "Report False Positive" button, or to report it on our official forum, even if it is in the French forum (I read and translate the forum with Google Translate).

 

Every antispyware and antivirus program detects false positives. Kaspersky AntiVirus also has false positives. So Spyware Terminator is not alone in this category.

 

We would just like to see more users reporting them on our forums instead of complaining about them and holding them against our software.

 

 

 

About RealTime Protection

 

We provide three levels of realtime protection:

 

1) Basic Realtime protection - this detects things like:

-homepage changes

-startup changes

-Internet explorer addons

-file extension (.txt, .doc, .exe, etc.) changes

 

(just view the "Protection en Temps-reel" tab for the shields)

 

2) HIPS - Host Intrusion Prevention System - this detects behavior of Windows, like installation of programs, registration of DLLs. This protection runs at the Kernel layer.

 

3) AntiVirus with ClamAV - if you enable ClamAV, ST will be able to detect viruses detected by ClamAV.

 

 

If you dont use ClamAV, you wont get virus alerts.

If you dont use HIPS, you wont get many alerts since an experienced user wont find many malicious changes that our basic realtime protection will detect as "bad".

 

You may also be using HIPS but in a suppressed mode.

 

In our HIPS options ("Avance" tab in the "Protection en Temps-reel" tab), I would suggest using "Mode Utilisateurs experts" after clicking "Choisir un profil".

 

I think for expert users, the only option to have checked is "Etre averti des objets bloques", besides having "Systeme de prevention d'intrusions (HIPS)" checked.

 

 

I get many alerts from the realtime protection. So either you have HIPS disabled, HIPS in low-level mode, or you are running very safe .

 

 

 

About Spyware Terminator performance

 

Spyware Terminator is only 1.5 years old (late 2005 it was first released). So it is hard to accuse a new program for having smaller databases than other programs. We have people who actively look for new items to add to the database, and everyday we release updates to our database. Our Czech team has been on vacation (national holidays) for the past two business days, which is why there was a lack of updates.

 

Another thing is that our database page lists 2900+ items (http://www.spywareterminator.com/stdata/list.aspx ). But 1 item = 1 program or 1 name. We do not calculate 2900 by every registry key or every file created by the program or malware. Other software, like SpySweeper calculate their number from every registry key, registry value, file, and folder which it can detect. Both are valid ways, but our way is a little more clear in showing what items we detect and helping vendors contact us if there is a dispute.

 

Another thing is that testing antispyware software is difficult. There havent been many notable antispyware test reports because it is hard to build an accurate database of entries for the test. Whether our software is bad in detection is based on user opinion in most cases. However, prevention is better than the cure, and we feel our prevention system is very good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My job involves going around and making sure people are clear that our software is clean and its practices are not malicious in anyway. I also make sure that it is not labeled as "bad", like with Assiste.com.free.fr. The last thing we need is incorrect information mislabeling our software as bad.

Modifié le 8 juillet 2007 par Tokar

[ipl_001]

Hi Tokar, hi everyone,

 

Thanks for posting all of the details here!

 

I follow the discussions of Assiste.com and I also posted there as well as at your own forum!

Thanks a lot for posting and explaining so clearly and so calmly! Be sure that I don't appreciate the tone used in the discussions!

[Tokar]

We will be releasing a beta of version 2.0, officially, tomorrow. If it is not released by the end of tomorrow, people can PM me . Or you can PM me now .

 

Just keep an eye on the download page (http://www.spywareterminator.com/dnl/beta.aspx) and the press release area (http://www.spywareterminator.com/pc/pr_news.aspx).

 

 

 

I bring this up because two of our brand new features make use of, and require Web Security Guard. We will have even more integration with v2.1.

 

WSG is not standalone product similar to SiteAdvisor, but it will be a program to improve Spyware Terminator.

Modifié le 8 juillet 2007 par Tokar

[MacPeter]

Bonsoir tout le monde,

 

 

 

Hi ipl_001, Hi Tokar

 

 

When installing Spyware Terminator there is not the slightest problem to install it without the Crawler bar.

 

When Spyware Terminator was first offered with the Crawler Bar I decided to try out the whole lot but when I noticed that there were few problems with the WebGuard, among other things, I uninstalled the Crawler Bar without problems. Then I checked it out with other security programs(RegSeeker, HjT, ...) that it was so. As I said no problems at all.

 

From which website was the Spyware Terminator downloaded?

 

______

 

Quand on installe ST on peut le faire sans la Crawler Barre sans problèmes.

Quand ST a été offert la première fois avec la Barre de Crawler et WebGuard j'ai décidé d'essayer l'ensemble mais quand je me suis aperçu qu'il y avait quelques problèmes notamment avec WebGuard j'ai désinstallé la Barre de Crawler sans problèmes. Puis j'ai fait la vérification avec d'autres programmes de sécurité(Regseeker, HjT...) pour voir que le travail a été bien fait. Comme je l'ai dit, aucun problème du tout.

 

D'où est-ce que la copie de Spyware Terminator a été téléchargée?

[gixona]

Bonsoir, me voici de retour.

Tout d'abord mille remerciements à tous ceux qui se sont intéressés à mon problème et tout particulièrement à CYRILCVCF qui en fait à relancé la question.

Depuis ce matin, après m'être repris à plusieurs fois, j'ai lancé antivir comme préconisé. Là, il tourne encore mais que depuis 17h. Voilà, je voulais vous signaler que j'étais actif sur le problème.

Antivir n'est pour l'instant qu'à 50% de lecture. Donc, je pense que je ne pourrai vous présenter le Hijackthis que demain.

Pour MacPeter, c'est à partir de Zébulon que j'ai chargé le ST en page 3 et 6ème article du téléchargement.

Je n'ai rien compris dans vos discussions en Anglais mais il semblerait qur tout le monde ne soit pas d'accord. En tout cas j'aimerais bien me dégager de ce logo.

Actuellement, je vous écris depuis le portable d'un copain.

Merci encore et à bientôt.

[Pierre (aka Terdef)]

Bonjour à tous,

 

Abordons quelques points :

(juste un petit rappel : Assiste, ce n'est pas simplement un site pour éradiquer un virus ou un rootkit, c'est aussi, au-delà, pour protéger la vie privée. Nous cherchons à élargir le champ de vigilance, raison pour laquelle nous sommes parfois plus rigides que d'autres tout en acceptant la polémique et la critique).

 

Toolbar de ST

Le problème de la Toolbar de ST est que c'est présenté comme un "plus" et donc on l'installe. 99% des internautes ne sont pas informés.

 

Eradication hypocrite par ST

Le problème de ST est qu'il éradique les autres Toolbars et donc son objectif n'est pas d'agir en anti-spywares (c'est accessoire) - sont objectif est totalement hypocrite : je retire les outils de revenus publicitaires des autres pour installer le mien ! C'est "Pousse toi de là que je m'y mette". Et il n'est pas le seul à agir ainsi.

 

Je ne sais plus comment le dire ? Faut-il lancer une alerte mondiale sur les toolbar ? Toutes y compris Google, premier espion du monde et Microsoft qui tente de suivre (changement de modèle économique - msn search - revenus publicitaires et régie - ils avaient commencé dès 1998 avec le rachat de Firefly). J'ai écrit cela il y a des années :

 

Depuis le début du Net, des sociétés scrutent et notent nos moindres faits et gestes grâce à diverses formes techniques d'écoutes et, depuis 1998, cet espionnage connaît une accélération planétaire fulgurante lorsque Microsoft rachète la société d'espionnage Firefly et, surtout, son système de centralisation, fusion et consolidation des profils d'internautes en provenance de plusieurs autres sociétés d'espionnage (on remarquera que ceci coïncide - 1998 - avec l'apparition des GUID dans tous les produits Microsoft).

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/qui_etes_vous...us_accueil.html

A quoi croyez-vous que servent les toolbar ? A vous aider ?... A vous apporter quelque chose ?...

 

Vous êtes-vous demandé pourquoi tout le monde cherche à faire des toolbars et vous les fourguer ?

 

Et plus généralement, est-ce que vous vous posez des questions en utilisant votre ordinateur où est-vous abrutis de pub et de discours lénifiant ?

 

J'ai employé des mots choisis et "réservés" ci-dessus. Si le message ne passe pas je peux exprimer beaucoup plus crûment le fond de ma pensée !

 

Barres d'outils - Toolbar

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/abc/a/barres_...ls_toolbar.html

 

Le business plan du Net est basé sur la pub

La pub n'a qu'une obsession :

• le bon message
  
• au bon moment
  
• à la bonne personne
  

Comment est-ce que l'on y parvient ? Il n'y a qu'un moyen d'y parvenir :

 

L'espionnage (pudiquement appelé tracking et profiling)

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/abc/a/profiler_profiling.html

 

Si vous n'avez pas compris cela et si vous continuez à croire que vous n'avez rien à cacher, inutile de parcourir ces pages.

 

Web Security Guard de ST

1/ C’est présenté comme un plus sécuritaire et donc c’est installé – peu importe que cela soit optionnel (et en Opt-Out - même pas en Opt-in !).

2/ Même chose pour les "outils" anti-phishing qui prétendent vous aider en interceptant toutes les URLs visitées - si Firefox le fait localement, sans rien faire remonter nulle part, Microsoft (IE) fait remonter toutes vos URLs afin de vous tracker. Dito pour tous les pseudo outils anti-phishing qui sont des outils de tracking dont Web Security Guard de ST !

 

Sites de confiance et Truste

TRUSTe est une vaste fumisterie - une réunion de ces gens là qui, entre-eux, s'auto-congratulent ! J'ai écrit cela il y a des années également et je n'y change pas un iota :

 

Pseudo sites de confiance

Certains acteurs du tracking et du profiling sont fiers d'arborer, sur leurs sites, leur adhésion à des "Organisations de protection de la vie privée" dont "TRUST-e" est la plus en vue. Ces "Organisations" sont simplement des associations d'acteurs s'étant rapprochés dans le cadre d'une entente et s'autoproclamant censeurs de leurs adhérents. Elles le font savoir haut et fort afin de couvrir les bruits de pas et les cris de révolte, dans les salles d'attente des tribunaux, des réelles associations de défense des consommateurs ou de défense des libertés individuelles. Ces "Organisations", faites pour couvrir d'un voile pudique les exactions de leurs membres, veulent donner une image de bonne volonté aux râleurs que nous sommes.

http://assiste.com.free.fr/p/spam/opt_out.html

 

Conclusion

ST fait tout pour connaître tous les mots clés que vous utilisez et toutes les urls que vous visitez afin de vous cerner !

 

Et bien moi je dit NON !

 

Message publié sur Assiste.com et Zebulon.fr simultanément

 

Cordialement

[Tokar]

If that is your stance, then why are the following programs not on your Craptheque list?

 

Spyware Doctor - includes opt-out Google Toolbar

McAfee AntiVirus - includes out-out McAfee SiteAdvisor, which is the same as Web Security Guard.

LinkScanner Pro - same as Web Security Guard

 

 

 

You say we remove other toolbars. The only toolbars Spyware Terminator remove are bad ones...ones identified with displaying advertisements, stealing information, or selling your traffic data.

We do not remove any toolbar we deem safe - Google, Yahoo!, Ask.com, MSN, Windows Live, AOL, etc. They are not touched and they are not harmed.

 

We are not in the business of gaining competitive advantage through removal of other toolbars. I insist proof of this.

 

 

 

I believe toolbars are helpful in making your job of searching the web easier and using your computer in general.

Everyone I know uses toolbars. Internet Explorer 7 has a toolbar for searching, and the beloved Firefox has a toolbar for searching as well. Opera has it and so does Safari. The toolbars provided by the browsers are limited in their functionality and only provide searching. Our toolbar, like Google toolbar, or Yahoo! toolbar, or others, provides links to helpful resources like http://www.archive.org, news outlets, and other features like RSS Feeding and integrating Mail Checker.

And, our toolbar provides searching through Google, Yahoo, MSN and Ask.com. It is not singular with its search abilities.

 

I do not understand the word "fourguer". Google Translate does not like this word.

 

 

 

99% of net users might not be informed, but if they are using the internet, they sure can read, and if they read our download page they can find a version with Web Security Guard, and one WITHOUT. And the one that includes Web Security Guard, a screen is clearly presented asking the user to opt-out of the toolbar. You may shun the "opt-out" (and not "opt-in") practice but it is used by many other programs, as mentioned above, and you dont seem to be looking down on those programs. I can present you with a LONG list of programs which make it "opt-out" for the bundled toolbar. If this is the sole reason for listing our software, then I demand you list all of the software I find.

 

Some software goes as far to add an opt-out install of Firefox + Google Toolbar for Firefox. You dont shun that???

 

 

 

If you shun toolbars and search engines, I wonder how you are able to get the information you need from the internet if you dont use them. I also wonder how much time you spend getting the information you need. I guess there are always the public libraries, which are free of search engines.

Information collected by search engines are 100% anonymous and they arent sold or used in any malicious ways. Crawler's privacy policy is similar, and probably more strict and secure than Google's, AOL's, Yahoo!'s, and Microsoft's.

I suggest you read the EULA, TOU and Privacy Policies of these search engines to understand what a search engine does. There is no dark mafia conglomerate associated with Search engines, I'm sorry to say.

 

 

Let me make this clear before I start the advertising discussion below: Crawler software does not show advertisements. The toolbar operates similar to all other toolbars in respect to advertising. Please consult the Privacy Policies for Google, AOL, MSN, Yahoo!, Crawler and a host of other search engines to understand what I speak of.

 

 

Anyway...

 

Is there a problem with internet advertising? I have purchased many useful products and services after being informed through internet advertisements.

If you think internet advertising is espionage, then you might as well turn off your television because the advertisements you see on your TV are determined by similar means. The television stations poll the audience and determine what the viewer wants to see and what they dont. When I watch the evening news program, I am presented with continuous advertisements for medicine for retiring adults. Why is this? Because the television networks know, by what you call "espionage", that the majority of the TV audience are elderly or retiring.

 

We might as well also stop physical forms of advertising as well, based on your beliefs. Gas stations show advertisements of coffee in the morning, and sandwiches in the afternoon, and soup at night. Why? They know people want coffee on the way to work, a sandwich for lunch, and something hot for dinner...they know this through "espionage" as you put it.

 

Advertising is a way of life, a way to make money and it is present in every, I repeat, EVERY, form of media. Magazines, television, radio, internet, newspapers, sporting events, on the highways, etc. Advertising is the only way companies get their product name out there, it is the only way they make money. How do they maximize their money? They tailor the advertisements to their audience. They know what the audience wants and they show/play the advertisements that are the most useful. If you were to remove this "tailored" advertising, you might as well close the majority of businesses around the world.

 

Do I like advertising? No, not really, but I understand that it is the only way for most companies to make their money. Not necessarily to make money from showing the advertisements, but to get their name out there to make money on future purchases. I have since stopped using advertising blocking software because I know that websites need to make their money and with me, and hundreds of others blocking those advertisements I know that those sites will be closed in less than a few months...and I like those free services on the internet. I sure dont want to pay for them.

 

 

Look, I know you have a problem with toolbars, but it is no reason to misinterpret the privacy policies set forth by these search engines to determine them as "crap". You might as well have everyone turn off their computers if you want things the way you prefer.

 

And it is in no way presented as a REQUIRED installation. We do not say "Web Security Guard is required". We simply explain the product and provide the user the simple ability to avoid the installation of such. If they determine they want it, they install it. If they determine they dont want it, they dont install it.

 

If you have such a problem with us including an optional product install (something McAfee, Spyware Doctor, and a host of others are guilty of) then you might as well just link everyone you know to our version WITHOUT included software which you can find in the middle of our download page http://www.spywareterminator.com/dnl/landing.aspx, at this link: http://www.spywareterminator.com/dnl/files...eTerminator.exe.

 

 

 

TRUSTe being a "hoax" is your opinion - we do not believe it to be a hoax. We at Crawler take it VERY seriously and so does TRUSTe. There is no documented information as to whether they are a hoax or not, but all I know is that if our toolbar does certain "bad" things, like track user site habits like Alexa toolbar, we will have certification revoked. Many companies use TRUSTe certification as a gauge as to whether to install certain software or not. You taking it to be a "hoax" is not a reason to throw it out the window and not use it in defense of Crawler Toolbar.

 

Our major Craptheque-type site in the Americas is SpywareWarrior - http://www.spywarewarrior.com. Nowhere do they mention TRUSTe is a hoax. If you think TRUSTe is a hoax, then please contact them and take the issue up with them.

 

They may not be something French people use for certification of privacy policies, but we do, and we take it VERY seriously.

 

 

 

Spyware Terminator DOES NOT collect any information about your habits. I repeat, it DOES NOT.

 

If your problem lies with Crawler Toolbar, then it is NOT a reason to list Spyware Terminator. Spyware Terminator, independently, is a safe program and does not collect any information. I will need PROOF of this if you wish to continue to make these claims.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure what else to tell you. Your opinions on the internet and toolbars seem to be misguided and you are holding our software to a double standard by not questioning Spyware Doctor's motives for including Google Toolbar, McAfee on its motives with including SiteAdvisor, etc.

 

If you find the practice of bundling toolbars to be bad then i will provide you a list of software which does it and I will expect those items to be added to your crap list as well.